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At any rate, logical fallacies dont need to be in or out of context to be called logical fallacies. When it's Time To Leave Thoughts on Breaking Away, 73. Examine any church in light of these five distinctive it will be shown if they are true historical Baptist congregation which is synonymous with what is a true biblical New Testament church. v-43 Stop grumbling among yourselves, Jesus answered. Any way dont want to lie on any church. They are the only group into modern times whose churches were founded on the Scriptures alone and not on the traditions or works of some man. Fundamental.org - King James, Fundamental, Independent Baptist Resources The more and more that I looked into it and studied the scripture, I realized not only were they wrong they were *completely* wrong about tithing, in fact, they didnt have a clue, and this was the standard teaching throughout the IFB. Our Pastor teaches that Baptism does not save us and is no a requirement of salvation. Through preaching the New Testament, the Gospel went forth in power and the Baptist movement grew rapidly. In Virginia, Baptist were not welcome. They say they hold to the NT pattern, and yet, they do not. Though many people including Websters Dictionary refers Baptists as being Protestants, it is not correct to refer to them as such or to lump all non-Catholic denominations in one group and label them Protestant. We have the freedom to give as much as we like, without any compulsion. And that homeless man that shows up every few weeks may have truly accepted Christ in the past, but events of life led to his downward spiral. The first Baptist church in New York was started by William Wichendon, in 1656. Since she has a place of her own now I dont see her as much as I like but I wont shun her because she left. The KJV is a wonderful translation and very valid for its time, and you, like many others love it for its beautiful shakesperean english. -What about the Jerusalem Council in Acts (I believe I am using the right title here, but I have not check my accuracy)? You place too much value on modern denominational history. Although, they were not as corrupt as the Church of England, they still practiced a strict ritual of church service, a state church, and among other things, infant baptism. Many Anabaptists churches were strong New Testament churches believing and following the Word of God. We preach modest clothing (unfortunatly most of the girls at my church dont adhere to it in that they wear skirts that expose all but a few inches of the upper leg). The acapella voices were very beautiful, and I knew she would have enjoyed hearing them. Protestants for centuries saw the Baptists as their enemies and murdered them by the thousands in the name of Protestantism. Our Beliefs JESUS CHRIST Jesus Christ is at the center of everything. It was horrible. Nor can I know the heart of those I preach to. In fact Jesus emphatically stated in Matt. The word Independent means that the church is not a member of any council, convention or is a part of any hierarchy outside the local congregation. Hundreds Accuse Independent Baptist Pastors of Abuse - News & Reporting 7. God alone has that authority and He in the person of the Holy Spirit brings conviction and salvation to those who in simple faith believe. Others have to a lesser degree compromised the Word of God by their teaching, practices and church polity trying to confront to popular religious tends. These new believers would then, following the New Testament example, submit to believers baptism and organize a local church. The ordinance of baptism, or 2. For an example there is Patrick of Ireland. Each year members profess 16 articles of faith that include the original five points of fundamentalismthe literal truth of divinely inspired scripture, the Virgin Birth and deity of Christ, substitutionary atonement through Christ, the Resurrection, and the Second Coming of Christ. I think most people would agree with me on this. 2. Being curious, I tried the Episcopal church and am now making arrangements for my confirmation. (Colossians 1:18; Matthew 18:15-20; Acts 15:22-21; 2 Corinthians 8:1-5, 19, 23) Priesthood of the Believer. Some Baptist historians, have made attempts at doing this, but in many cases refer to groups as early Baptists who did not in fact hold to pure Baptist beliefs as held today. It was not founded because a line of Baptist churches down through history. Steve must have been on vacation or something. This was the birth of Protestant churches. These distinctives are the distinctives taught in Bible which constitute a true New Testament church. I would agree with this. I meant to say that I agree that the IFB has strict dress standards. 16:18, concerning preserving the institution of the local church, that even the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Doctrinally sound New Testament churches have always existed from the time of Christ and the Apostles until today. I will not post here again. Some more deception I would like to expose are these IFB web sites. Other churches founded in New England and in the Middle colonies were the actual mother churches of modern Baptist churches as these churches were responsible for starting other churches. As for being responsible to share the gospel with those whom God has put in our path; our daily life should show we are different by our character and the way we live. My point is that Tithing is good since Jesus says they should not have left it undone. (adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({}); // Independent Fundamental Churches of America - Britannica 7) divorce as the unpardonable sin you can be forgiven if you kill someone, or if you have been saved from a homosexual lifestyle, but God help you if you have been divorced, they will still let you come to the meetings but you have to set on the back row. Although the Roman Catholic Church claims him as one of their saints, there is no evidence he even knew the Catholic church existed. NOT ONE. If I were asked to compare the church I attend with another denomination that I knew about. Smokers use breath mints. Make no mistake though baptism will never save anyone! I dont know of any areas where their teachings are unbiblical or fundamental. The New Independent Fundamental Baptist (New IFB) movement is a loose network of independent churches concentrated in the U.S. connected by their belief in certain religious doctrines and a shared brand of deeply anti-LGBTQ and antisemitic teachings. But Im pretty sure we can agree that If I showed up to your Church naked i would probably not be allowed in. Im a Southern Baptist and celebrate Jesus and His grace! About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features NFL Sunday Ticket Press Copyright . My Sunday school teacher and I have discussed the music issue and we both agree that there is nothng wrong with contemporary Christian music (I do believe some of it lifts up flesh rather than Jesus, though). The Gospel is to be preached throughout the world by believers empowered by the Holy Spirit as Acts 1:8 plainly states. Yes, we do preach not to be unequally yolked with non-belivers and I agree with that. Knolleys after two years returned to England at the request of his father. The church I left about 2 years ago had very nasty tracts in the back of the church that said horrible things about other translations, calling them perversions and so forth and actually saying outright lies about other translations. In the Midst of Infighting, Anti-LGBTQ Church Network's Website and It has received 39 reviews with an average rating of 4.7 stars. It is my conviction that it is not possible to trace an unbroken line of Baptist churches from Christ until today. My best friend who professes to be Christian (she attends a Southern Baptist church), is dating an evolutionist and she tells me that religion is not high up on her criteria for dating and marriage yet she will call me, upset, and say that her boyfriend is hasseling her about her faith. than we pray that they will get right with God Separation is not the problem. The study of Gods word deserves more time than this life holds. In his writings he appears ignorant of the practices of the Roman Church and never refers to church councils, creeds, traditions or even to the existence of a pope. BEREAN BAPTIST CHURCH. Right down to exactly a tenth. He returned to Salem where he was summoned before the court in Boston because of his outspoken beliefs and was banished from the colony. A side note, my sons group In Search Of Reason has been selected to play for CreationFest this year. Just because all churches do something a certain way (whether its tithing, tithing a tenth, standing on their heads when they pray, or whatever) doesnt make it correct. I see through to the intensions of this site. He told me that he attends a independent Baptist Church and stressed the importance of the small ( i ) in the name. But this issue is just another one that the IFBs get wrong, worrying themselves over externals as opposed to the internals. Ive become weary of those labels, and the Baptist one carries alot of baggage now. Ask these five questions of any church, and if they can answer all five in truth with a yes, then you will have a true Baptist church. It holds high the saving Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, as revealed in the New Testament and an unwavering commitment to carrying out the Great Commission, that is, to teach everywhere the truth of Gods Word. Ok how about some peace Blessed are the peacemakers I apologize for my abrasive writing style and did not purposely write to offend you, but make no mistake, someone can be dunked until they know every minnow by name, but that doesnt make them saved. I know that we dont use argriculture in the same way they did. Even the enemies of the Baptists openly recognize their zeal for the Word of God. First I would disagree that The Church of Christ teaches first century, new testament doctrine. Also, from personal expreicnei know how it feels to be spirtually abused. (I Corinthians 15:1-4) Further, if a person is truly saved and strictly follows the principles of the New Testament he will in a true sense be a Baptist whether he uses the name or not. In 1684, a Baptist church in Maine seeking greater religious liberty was relocated to Charleston, South Carolina. So the the issue is that there has to be a Biblical standard for dress. . They will not engage in joint meetings, or evangelistic endeavors, with Protestants, Catholics, or other doctrinally unsound church groups, who do not hold to the fundamental teachings of the New Testament. On the other hand, we are responsible for witnessing to people God brings our way. Select worship style. This free resource is here to help you find an independent Baptist church in your area or while traveling. Its the phraseology itself that one calls into question as being logical or illogical. While every effort has been made to follow citation style rules, there may be some discrepancies. The cops accused them of urinating in the water. There are no rules about what to give at all. 13:17, Acts 20:28, Eph. However, history is clear that in the beginning and into the 9th Century there were churches in Britain that rejected pedo-baptism, popery and other false doctrines of the Catholics. Baptist also believe the Bible interprets itself, and that Christ is the only head of the church. The natural question then to ask is, What makes a person a true Baptist? In examining the history of Baptists and determining what makes up a genuine and true Baptist, five distinctives should be noted. The transformation God is making in our lives makes us stand out. I am not trying to be overly critical and yet I only have a certain amt of time to get to my points and while doing that I often come across that way, so forgive me. 3:3). 3:1-16) However, some Independent Baptist churches do not accept that the word "officer" is the proper biblical term to be used and particularly does not apply to deacons. For IFB churches, most use this as a baseline in their giving with II Cor 9:7 for guiding in the heart of giving. I chose to focus on the doctrine of separation as typically understood by Independent Baptists (I was one). So I wonder again is this God desire or your thing? One of the best sources I have found concerning His nature, the Nature of Jesus, and the Holy Spirit is at the following link: Gayle Erwin does a wonderful teaching on the nature of God. The pastor is a self-taught, good man. About this time the Puritans were also becoming strong in England. Spencer Smith on Instagram: "I was saved at 18 at an independent King James (KJV) Independent Fundamental Baptist Churches in Arkansas. Biblically neither Deacons or Trustees are a governing body, or a board, but titles of special appointed servants who serve at the will of the pastor and congregation. http://www.av1611.org/ this web site is dial-the-truth ministries, but I call them dial-the-. So you made assumptions based on very little. This church had no ties to anyone or any other church, yet this was a Baptist church as much as any Baptist church ever was. : Yes Address: 1101 Pennsylvania Ave Monaca Pennsylvania 15061 United States Service Times: Sunday School 9:30, Sunday Morning 10:30, Sunday Evening: N/A as of 2/2023, Wednesday 6:30 Phone: 724-252-7885 Pastor's Name: Kevin Draganac He is light years away from the legalism of the last church, but holds tightly to the KJV (too tightly I think) but is not fanatical like the last pastor. I dont believe it is a Law that one has to tithe. Its beginning charter reads as follows: We whose names are hereunder written, being desirous to inhabit ourselves in active and passive obedience to all such orders or agencies as shall be made for the public good of the body in an orderly way, by the major consent of the present inhabitants, masters of families, incorporated together into the same, only in civil things.. Any professed church that does not recognize these is Apsotasy & not the Church. Bob Just want to commend you on how clearly you are able to elucidate on a given topic, Im envious. HARVEY ND 58341 (701) 324-4415 CH/HM. If I was wearing a sponge Bob square pants costume while leading worship I would probably be asked to change into something more appropriate. For another example, our neighbor is a lost man. Calvary Chapels do not believe that baptism is necessary for membership in a local assembly. That local body of baptized believers would be as valid a true New Testament church as any church Christ ever founded. Independent Fundamental Baptist churches have fellowship one with the other and often cooperate in such things as evangelism. I went on to share with her that in that same passage it says, singing psalms, hymns (which by the way modern churches are throwing out) and spiritual songs. In Germany, the state church is Lutheran and in England, the Anglican church, France, the Roman Catholic Church, etc. Particular Baptist had their beginnings around 1616, when some dissenters left the Church of England and were lead by the Rev. Many of the TV evangelists and all of the Charismatic and Pentecostal churches promote teachings which are not Biblical. Our goal here has always been to provide encouragement and resources for independent Baptists. Ivor Church is the only one I know of where you can virtually come as you are. Im all about modest clothing, but I cant tell you how many sermons I have sat through where the man of God railed against women wearing slacks. 77. It was almost like watching 12yr olds trying to run a corporation. 2) tell you what kind of music to listen to Im made of dirt, but God is gonna let my neighbor go to Hell because the dirt-clod next door didnt give him a Chick tract!! The pastor followed up with me with a long phone call, and that is when we began to discuss the baptism issue, he was very cordial and we simply agreed to disagree, which is probably what you and I will have to do. She eventually left because my uncle (divorced numerous times himself), rode her case about it. Smyth, believed the only real apostolic succession is a succession of Biblical New Testament truth, and not of outward ordinances and visible organization such as the Church of England or the Roman Church. For example inn Isle of Wight county in southeastern Virginia, Baptist preachers were taken to Nansamond River, nearly drowned by Episcopalians to show their contempt for Baptists beliefs in immersion and their rejection of infant Baptism. Anyone who differed with the practices of the State church were subject to great persecution. Under grace we can give as much as we like. However, let no one think little of the name of Baptist for it is the name that most has identified those individuals and churches who have uncompromisingly stood on the Word of God. Greg, Our editors will review what youve submitted and determine whether to revise the article. It is believed that God meant what he said in Revelation 22:18, the Scriptures were not to added to or taken from. They do not find support in the Bible for such a requirement. The bible says Let God be true and every man a liar So follow the Word and you will never be led astray. The Independent Baptist church has a congregational form of government with each member having the right of the vote and all the affairs of the churches are conducted by the local congregation following the guidelines of the New Testament. Your reasoning is faulty. 1. So just these few examples demonstrate why many people, including me have a hard time understanding this ancient translation. My point (and I just found Scripture) was that Jesus did not disnounce it as badHe says (less I misunderstand) these you ought to have done without leaving the rest undone. They direct their own affairs under the authority of the New Testament Scriptures, free from the outside interference. You may admire their piety, but a true believer in the New Testament would have a great problem with many of their doctrines and especially why they persecuted the Baptists and drove them from their colonies. The point is Jesus not only did not condem it but He said it should not have been left undone. Hi, in your opening statement use say that God has not party with them, those who operate under any systems of hierarchy set up by man over the authority of the local church. Thus the words Independent and Fundamental have been added by many Baptist churches to further identify themselves as truly Bible believing churches and to show a distinction between themselves and Baptist churches who were not following Gods word. The name Fundamental Independent Baptist is of recent origin and came into being because many modern day Baptist churches compromising the Word of God and teaching and practicing false doctrines. Thanks for your response. Christians under the grace economy give out thankfulness to God for what Christ has done for them, without any compulsion. They do not accept that authority was given to any particular man, pope, prophet, group or church on earth to be the means of the salvation of men. Being to poor to pay the fines he was banished from the colony. This church was not founded on a man, but on the Bible. In 1638, he landed in Boston and settled for a short time in Piscataway (now Dover) in New Hampshire. This kind of power is frightening to meet with. I should have or you should have? 2. So many churches have lost wonderful ministry opportunties by turning away those hurting, divorced folks, its a shame, God help us all to be sensitive to those who are hurting all around us. Again Im not sure what the Word of God sais about dress. I have also spend a good bit of down time ruminating over my beliefs of my church, and the fallacies of their theology. He then begins crying, Im not an expert at body language, but it certainly seemed contrived, preachertainment some would call it. I grew up in a Catholic church and boarding school, then was taken out and placed into Lutheran surroundings. Christs death ushured in teh New Covenant where ceremonial law for the remission of sin is replaced with grace and mercy. The point is the name Baptist in the beginning was used to designate a true New Testament assembly that was biblically sound. 3:8-13) are appointed from the local congregation and approved by the majority vote. So, I guess we are not all as rigid as one would believe from some comments. Listening To The Critics A Response To James Ach, 56. Lynne, It is difficult to trace Baptist churches down through history. G.L. KJV Independent, Fundamental Baptist Churches in the USA